Invading The Sacred-The Foreword

Jul 3 2007  | Views 631 |  Comments  (20)
New Book just out -"Invading The Sacred-an analysis...". Here's the 'Foreword' ... Expand

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  karigar posted 6 mnths ago

BL,

Sorry I missed that comment! (Been on & off Sul for a while...)

Good comment, I agree!



  bilingual posted 12 mnths ago

Oboy...... ( Licking my chops) I get to bash the West  with my arms locked in warm embrace with my Indian pals? Gee this fellow must have missed a few of my Blogs! Sounds too good to be true unsterotyping Indian culture and sterotyping the West ! I might just have to visit the website so I can toot my own horn and distance myself from all of this.....Huuuurah..... Seriously though, it does look like a good read..... not that any of the Indians here need any coming out party !  There seems to be an abundance of fresh discussion here.



  karigar posted 12 mnths ago

 
Finally, here's my review...
 

Invading The Sacred-A Review

10 Jul 07 10:17:28 AM
 
Scintillating page turner, a fascinating Inter-Cultural tale of Cerebral Suspense..reviewed
 
Pls. read & comment,
 
Better still, pls. go to the book's website & comment on discussion board...



  riverine posted 12 mnths ago

 
I am getting the book as I read a wonderful review here: Challenging Western Scholarship on Hinduism



  sreenivasarao s posted 12 mnths ago

Dear karigar
 
Please visit  Where do we go from here?  for more discussion on "Invading the sacred" and other issues.
 
Thank You
 
Regards



  Aditi Ray posted 12 mnths ago

Hi Karigar,
 
Would wait for your comments after you read the book. [May be on my next visit to Tekchands, I will try to pick it up myself. Don't know when that will be, though].
 
On innocent friendly physical contact between  friends of the same sex being construed as homosexuality, I actually consider as the biggest loss of innocence for our children.
 
If only sex was not so all pervasive to the Western way of defining relationships, the world could have been a much more better place. That is as a side personal note, of course.
 
Regards,
 
Aditi

 



  bharatborn posted 12 mnths ago

i read your blog karigar but couldn't leave a comment for some reason. waiting for the review.
i liked the comment too. that 'touching' issue between men was mentioned to me by 2 germans. till then i hadn't noticed it at all. they found it odd.



  karigar posted 12 mnths ago

 
[From my "Archives"...an old, highly enlightening comment, that is prob'ly still there on sulekha..perhaps sulrkha blogger Rajiv Malhotra's pivotal writings...]
 
 Foreword author S N Balagangadhara explaining what it means to "Be Denied Our Experiences" when the Euro explanations like "Linga is a "phallic" symbol, or specifically, Paul Courtright's characterization of Ganesha's trunk as....a......(you guessed it ?? ) Ph*llus  ...
 
{This Paul Courtright book and his fanciful & utterly ridiculous interpretation of Sri Ganesha has also been analyzed & discussed in the book....}
 
----Comment Extract-----

Posted by

Balagangadhara on Sep 21, 2002

Jeffrey Kripal (A Multi-part Post)

Before addressing this post to Jeffrey Kripal, I would like to very clearly stipulate some of my basic stances so that the discussion does not get derailed into these issues.

(A) Even though the communications will be directed to the person of Jeffrey Kripal, it is not *ad hominem* but issue-oriented. However, I will eschew making some *kinds* of qualifications academics are prone to make, so that any intelligent, but lay person can not only follow the discussion but also *evaluate* what is being said.

(B) I do not subscribe to the ‘identity politics’ popular in the US universities, any more than I belong to the community of writers who call themselves ‘post-colonial’ or as defenders of the ‘sub-altern’ studies. I find such writings intellectually both puerile and pernicious.

(C) In no form of fashion do I want to claim that the location of a person is relevant to *evaluating* what he says. Caste, creed, ethnic origins, cultural location, skin-colour, passport, etc. are no more relevant to this debate than the fact that the ‘Jewishness’ of Albert Einstein is relevant to evaluating his theory of general (or special) relativity. That is to say, if we can do physics, Mathematics, Biology, etc.; if we can write in illuminating ways about St. Augustine or Martin Luther; I do not see why someone from another culture (whether Western, African, or American Indian) cannot do the same about Shankaracharya or Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.

(D) The above stance is not a mere moral one, as far as I am concerned. This is an *integral part* of what it is to contribute to human knowledge. In so far as possessing a white skin does not make one into a scientific researcher only by virtue of this fact alone, the same does not disqualify one from being a researcher either. It is strictly irrelevant. However, this does not mean that it is irrelevant to *producing* that knowledge. In more ways than one, one’s context is important and, perhaps, in these posts I can talk about the ways in which it is the case. But this concerns the production of knowledge not its evaluation.

(E) Therefore, I will be interrogating Jeffrey Kripal with respect to one single question: has he produced knowledge or not? I do not believe he has; I do not believe he knows this; I believe his stance prevents him from recognising either of these two. I will try to provide arguments in defence of these charges. This is my brief.

Dear Jeffrey Kripal,

Many voices will have joined in this debate by the time I get to post this. Mine is one such. In the course of the communication, it is possible that I raise my voice now and then to make some point or another. Let this only draw your attention to the fact that we are disputing some issues not as disembodied minds but as human beings. *Menschlich, als zu Menschlich* (Human, all too Human), as Nietzsche put it so beautifully while titling one of his contributions thus.

Your first book raises many issues; your other book even more. As did Rajiv Malhotra’s article. So does your response. I want to take up many of them; but my ‘wordiness’ (as some people so kindly characterise my style) will no doubt prevent me from doing all I want to. But the issue I want to tackle requires this writing style. So, please indulge me. In order to set the problem up, I will begin by sketching some relevant anecdotes.

1. As is the case with most Indians, I learnt English through an Indian language. I was taught that *puja* was worship, ‘devas’ meant ‘gods’ (with this capitalisation) and so on. It was not clear what exactly ‘God’ was even though I was taught that you write ‘God’ with a ‘big G’ as we used to say. I guess I assumed that ‘God’ referred to the entity you ‘chose’: mine, for instance was ‘Ishwara’. Some how, I fell in love with this ‘erotic asectic’ (as Wendy Doniger titled her book on Shiva): with his abode in the ‘cemeteries’, with his tendency to be easily provoked to anger; his ‘veebhoothi’ and his snake and, of course, his children Ganesha and Skanda. No doubt, it has something to do with my name and my ‘short temper’ (as we say in India) too. One day, I must have been around 14 then, I ‘discovered’ that ‘linga’ meant phallus (a ‘penis’ as it was explained to me) and that it was a ‘symbol’ of male fertility. So, when my sisters and mother went to do *puja* in the nearby temple of Mallikarjuna (another name for Shiva), they actually went to worship a male penis. I was terribly, terribly embarrassed by this explanation, felt it was wrong too, but did not know what to say about it. I still remember running to the temple to see whether the Shiva linga looked like a penis. I must confess that it did not. However, my insistence on this fact generated a jeering laughter from the person who had ‘broken this news’ to me: "How many have you seen? That is what the penis will look like when you grow old." My sense of wrongness persisted, the embarrassment never left me, especially when Europeans asked me what ‘Shiva linga’ stood for. But I did not know what to say.

2. Fast forward. Nearly a decade later. I am 24 and on my first trip to Europe. I ‘knew’ about homosexuality abstractly (i.e. it never occurred to me to visualise it concretely), and had ‘no problems with it’ (as I used to put it in those days). However, I was quite unprepared for the sight of males ‘French kissing’ each other openly and therefore was incredulously fascinated by the scene when I first came across it in Amsterdam. Any way, I went back to India having learnt about some of the outward signs of manifesting homosexual affection.

As you will no doubt know, it is a common practice for friends to walk the streets in India, holding hands and moving them breezily. It is equally common to put your arm across the shoulders of your friend and walk or cycle. In India, I had a friend who had this habit of clasping your hands and walk along with you. After my return from Europe, I could not reciprocate any more: I knew what it ‘meant’. Even though I had no problem doing the same before I went to Europe, after my return, I could not. It was embarrassing; but I could not share this feeling with my friend who had never been to Europe. I could not tell him to stop doing it either because it would have affected our friendship. So, I tried not to walk next to him when we were together in a group. When two of us were alone and on the streets, I solved ‘the problem’ by *constantly* holding a lighted cigarette in the hand he would want to clasp. Instinctively, as it happened many-a-times, he would move to the other side; then, so would my cigarette.

3. Fast forward again. Nearly a quarter century later. Today, I am able to reflect about what embarrassments like the above signified. Now I have begun to fashion the intellectual and conceptual tools needed to interrogate these experiences: not mine alone but those of a culture. What was the nature of wrongness and embarrassment I felt when I ‘discovered’ that linga ‘meant’ penis? Why did I feel embarrassed to hold my friend’s hand? What sense of ‘wrongness’ prevented me from telling him what ‘embarrassed’ me about this simple act of affection between friends? And so on and so forth.

4. Many readers of the debate that has ensued after Rajiv Malhotra’s article are expressing this sense of ‘wrongness’ as well. Probably, most of them do not belong to the ‘Hindu right’ or to the ‘Hindutva’ movement. Nor are they expressing an ironed out, prudish ‘neo-vedantic’ strain, as you put it. Something else is involved.

 
Before interrogating this experience, let me tell you what happened recently. I asked my brother (in India) to read the Sulekha column and tell me of his responses. Unprepared for what he was going to encounter, he had the article and the responses printed out and read them through. Yesterday, I rang up to ask him what he made of all this. He told me that he could not sleep the whole night after reading Rajiv Malhotra’s article. He just sat the night through he said, much to his wife’s worry who told him that he was ‘foolish’ to read all kinds of stuff and upset himself. "Why do they write about us like this", he asked, "what *injustice* (Anyaaya) have we done to the Americans that they write about our deva’s this way?"
 
He feels enraged, ashamed, humiliated and wounded, without knowing what to do about any of these feelings. "I feel like scratching my body incessantly" (a typical Indian expression to express helplessness), he said, "they ‘should not’ have written this way. It is wrong. It is a paapa" (Ganesha is his favourite ‘God’. His home is full of pictures of all kinds of Ganesha’s: the baby Ganseha, the crawling Ganesha, the dancing Ganesha and, of course, any number of seated ones.) Why do my brother and many others like him on this board experience feelings like ‘injustice’, ‘humiliation’, ‘moral wrong’ and so on? If they are ‘shocked’ and ‘indignant’, which they undoubtedly are, what *kind* of a shock and indignation is it?

5. Surely, Jeffrey Kripal, this is the *first* thing you have to explore when you want to ‘understand’ a culture different from your own. You say, in your defence, that you have assembled a thick file of correspondence (both positive and negative) from Indians and that you are ‘sensitive’ to their feelings. This is not an issue about your sensitivity or mine, my friend, but about *cultural sensibilities*. What kind of shock and sense of wrongness does one feel to see Ramakrishna portrayed as a sort of paedophile? (Of course, you do not quite ‘say’ it in these terms; we will have time to look at your nuances later.) You have the answers ready: I know them, so do the readers. Instead of discussing them in the abstract, let us try and interrogate these experiences themselves, and do an exercise in ‘cultural hermeneutics’as it were.

6. Here is the first striking thing: these purported ‘explanations’ *trivialise experiences*. When I ‘found out’ that my mother, my sisters, all women and all men, were *merely worshipping the male penis* it told me the following: (a) that what I was doing was, in fact, ‘worshipping’ the penis; (b) that I was a ‘fool’ to think that I was doing something else other than this. That is to say, not only did it make all hitherto acts of worship look foolish, it also insisted that I was being doubly ‘foolish’ for not knowing this. [Ibid. with respect to claiming that Ganesha’s love of sweets expresses his appetite for oral sex or that his trunk is a limp penis. How foolish is it to cook all those many, many sweet dishes during ‘Ganesha Chaturthi’!]

7. By virtue of this, it ‘transformed’ my experience. What does the transformation consist of? Such purported explanations *re-describe experiences by twisting or distorting them*. Before I went to Europe, holding hands *was not* experienced by me as an expression of homosexuality but now it gets distorted to *become* one after my encounter with the European culture. Same thing with respect to the re-description of linga as penis.

Of course, it is the case that scientific theories ‘correct’ experiences too: we see a stick appearing bent when immersed in water and see the movement of the sun across the horizon. Our scientific theories tell us that neither is true. In such cases, it is important to note that these theories *preserve* our experiences the way they are: in fact, the scientific theories explain to us the *necessity* of such appearances. They do not *distort* them, much less *deny* them.

8. That is what these purported explanations do: *deny our experiences*. Our worship of the linga is *in reality* not a worship of Shiva at all, but a ‘subconcious acknowledgement’ of some ‘repressed’ notion of fertility (or whatever else). Whatever we ‘experience’ is not the said object at all but something else.

9. What happens when your experience is denied by being distorted and trivialised? If you ‘accept’ this story of penis, both erect and limp, can you feel the same sense of ‘reverence’ (or call it what you want) that you did once, remember it too, without feeling a perfect ass? You cannot. You cannot have access to such an experience any more. That is, these purported explanations *deny access to our own experiences*.

10. Here lies the root of the sense of ‘wrongness’ that my brother and many others feel. Who or what is denying access to our own experience? It is not a theory, but a *theorising of someone else’s experience*. Because this point can be easily misunderstood, let me unravel this just a bit.

Much before Freud wrote whatever he did, we had people from other religions coming to India to say the same thing: first from Islam and then from Christianity. They told us (not only them, many Indians in their wake told us that as well!) that we were worshipping the cow, the monkey, the penis, the stone idol and the naked fakir. This is how these people *experienced us and our activities*. Their theologies had prepared them for such an experience much before they came to our part of the world. Of course, they ‘saw’ only what they expected to see.

The descriptions the missionaries provided, the reports of Christian merchants, the interpretations of the Muslim kings, the developments within Christian theology, etc. were the ‘facts’ that Freud sought to understand. (To the extent he believed that he was laying the foundation of a ‘scientific’ theory, to that extent these were the ‘facts’ he was accounting for.) What did he ‘theorise’ then? He theorised upon the *European experience* of other cultures and upon a theological elaboration of these experiences.

Consequently, who or what is denying the access to our experience? The *experience of another culture*. (Or, the ‘theorising of such an experience.’ Though important in its own right, we can safely drop this distinction. Taking it into consideration would make the analysis complex without adding anything of substance.) This lies at the root of the feeling of wrongness: *our experiences are being trivialised, denied, distorted and made inaccessible by someone else’s experience of the world.* Is this justified or is justifiable? Apparently, there is only one way of experiencing the world: the ‘western way’.

11. More interesting points can be brought to light by interrogating the experiences I have talked about. But they are sufficient (the post has become very long already) to raise the following question: What are you trying to ‘understand’ when you use your ‘hermeneutic’ to understand Ramakrishna? How *you* see him? Or how *we* see him? What are you theorising about? *Your experience* or ours?
[You see, this is a legitimate cognitive question, given what I have said so far, and not *ad hominem*. This legitimate question, without being argued so explicitly, has taken the form of the following ‘invitations’ on this board: ‘Go get yourself psychoanalysed first’; ‘psychoanalysis is western’; ‘you cannot understand us’, etc.]

12. You insist that how your culture experiences the world is also the only possible experience of the world. (Not explicitly, of course. But, as the above ‘analysis’ has shown, that is what you do.) You want to tell us what Ramakrishna’s ‘mysticism’ is *all about* because this is the only way your ‘theories’ allow you to see it. Your theories, your explanations deny us what you would not, as a person, dream of denying to us: that we too have an experience, another one perhaps, but one that is as ‘valid and legitimate’ as any human experience can be.

You end your article with these words: "I at least am ready to laugh again, to exchange gifts, to argue, to apologize, to weep. I always have been." I believe you. But do you know, people from other cultures do so too? We too laugh, exchange gifts, argue, apologise and weep? You know *that* we do it; you assume you know it because that is what *you* do too. But do you know *how* we do any or all of these things? Does it occur to you that we might do them *differently*? Do you know, Jeffrey Kripal, *how we cry* or even why? I wonder.

Friendly greetings

Balu



  sreenivasarao s posted 12 mnths ago

 

 

Dear Karigar
Thank you for carrying this on.
Earlier I hag sent a note to Aditi Banerjee based on Oh History! My History! and the comments posted thereon. It is @ http://invadingthesacred.com/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,
There are a number of hits and no comments yet .As Melody Queen said, where do we go from here? Ket us see how it turns out. Please read the Overview of the Book.
Regards
Overview
 
India, once a major civilizational and economic power that suffered centuries of decline, is now newly resurgent in business, geopolitics and culture. However, a powerful counterforce within the AmericanAcademy is systematically undermining core icons and ideals of Indic Culture and thought. For instance, scholars of this counterforce have disparaged the Bhagavad Gita as “a dishonest book”; declared Ganesha's trunk a “limp phallus”; classified Devi as the “mother with a penis” and Shiva as “a notorious womanizer” who incites violence in India; pronounced Sri Ramakrishna a pedophile who sexually molested the young Swami Vivekananda; condemned Indian mothers as being less loving of their children than white women; and interpreted the bindi as a drop of menstrual fluid and the “ha” in sacred mantras as a woman's sound during orgasm.
Are these isolated instances of ignorance or links in an institutionalized pattern of bias driven by certain civilizational worldviews?
Are these academic pronouncements based on evidence, and how carefully is this evidence cross-examined? How do these images of India and Indians created in the AmericanAcademy influence public perceptions through the media, the education system, policymakers and popular culture?
Adopting a politically impartial stance, this book, the product of an intensive multi-year research project, uncovers the invisible networks behind this Hindu phobia, narrates the Indian Diaspora's challenges to such scholarship, and documents how those who dared to speak up have been branded as “dangerous”. The book hopes to provoke serious debate. For example:
how do Hindu phobic works resemble earlier American literature depicting non-whites as dangerous savages needing to be civilized by the West?
Are India's internal social problems going to be managed by foreign interventions in the name of human rights?
How do power imbalances and systemic biases affect the objectivity and quality of scholarship?
What are the rights of practitioner-experts in “talking back” to academicians?
What is the role of India's intellectuals, policymakers and universities in fashioning an authentic and enduring response?
 

 



  Melody Queen posted 12 mnths ago

Dear Karigar,
 
Elsewhere on Sulekha, the topic started off with Azygos's post Marxisation of the Upanishads to Sreenivasa Rao's post on Oh! History.
 
Thank you for your post and keeping alive our discussion on Invading the Sacred. Where do we go from here? In what way can we contribute to dispel/protest/voice our opinion?
 
Regards





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